In an exclusive, in-depth interview with Metal Express Radio, Exodus guitarist Gary Holt takes us through the band’s explosive journey from Bay Area thrash pioneers to modern metal masters. From revealing the true story behind the delayed release of their landmark debut Bonded By Blood, to discussing his unique songwriting process and dropping hints about the upcoming “nuclear kick” of their next album, Holt holds nothing back.
Learn how Exodus helped shape the thrash metal scene alongside Metallica, discover why Holt “doesn’t care what fans think” (yet still delivers exactly what they want), and find out which Exodus album now sells for $75 on eBay. With candid insights about lineup changes, battles with addiction, and the evolution of their sound, this is the definitive Exodus interview that every thrash metal fan needs to read.
MER: You were one of the trendsetters of the Bay Area thrash movement back in the early 80s. I know you recorded some demos before your first album that were more melodic or less aggressive. How did the thrash metal style evolve for you?
Gary Holt: The early stuff, we only ever did one official demo, the old Whipping Queen demo. Those were Kirk’s songs, and back then the band, especially Kirk’s writing, was far more Iron Maiden influenced. That was before we started delving into the stuff I started writing, which was much more violent. Mercyful Fate and Venom were two of my biggest influences.
MER: Were you influenced by other thrash bands around at that time?
Gary Holt: No, we tried not to be. Obviously, there were bands that came later where you could just hear Metallica all over them. But us and Metallica were going at it side by side. I think what it came down to was we all loved the same bands, but we loved certain ones more. Metallica was obviously all about Diamond Head, Lars even says they should pay royalties for their sound. For us, it was all about Mercyful Fate, Venom, and Discharge, with some hardcore punk thrown in there. And of course, Maiden, Priest, and Sabbath too.
MER: Did you know all the bands playing your kind of music in the Bay Area?
Gary Holt: Well, yeah. Us and Metallica, when we first met, we were like “wow, there’s another band playing the same kind of metal that we play” and we hit it off right away. The other bands, most of them got their start opening for either of us. Whether it’s Forbidden or Legacy (now Testament) or Death Angel or Violence, they were opening Exodus gigs everywhere. We were all friends, but I was out to blow every last one of them off the stage, to show them who daddy was.
MER: Your debut Bonded By Blood was actually recorded before Metallica released their debut album but came out after. Was that an issue for you?
Gary Holt: It was disappointing. I would have liked things to go more smoothly and come out earlier, but we were on a new startup record label that had some serious growing pains in figuring out how to do this. It took a while, but the album’s a classic. I don’t think anybody’s ever going to touch it, myself included.
MER: Were you aware that album would be such a milestone in thrash metal when you released it?
Gary Holt: I had no idea. I just thought it was killer and the songs were all killer. Did I think anybody would be talking about it all these years later? I can’t say that I did. We were just a bunch of kids drinking way too much and playing fast metal. Maybe that’s part of the secret, we didn’t technically know what we were doing. Some people would have probably told us “you’re not supposed to do that, not supposed to play that fast, guitars aren’t supposed to sound like that,” but we didn’t listen. We were hard-headed.
MER: The label was based in New York. How did they find you?
Gary Holt: Through underground tape trading and stuff. The same way people in Europe knew who we were long before we ever recorded an album, just bootlegs.
MER: Did you get out to play much after the album?
Gary Holt: Yeah, we did the two tours with Venom, which was like a highlight of my life. The one in the US with Venom, Slayer and Exodus was so much fun. We did a couple of headlining tours and stuff like that.
MER: Actually, one of our reporters in Germany saw you with Venom and he said you blew them off stage. Did you have that feeling as well?
Gary Holt: They’re my heroes, so I just can’t say that, but we were hitting on all cylinders then.
MER: Paul Baloff left the band. What happened?
Gary Holt: At the time, Paul was having a lot of problems with his life and just his living situation. It’s one of those things where it’s a double-edged sword because I’ve regretted it ever since, but I don’t regret the albums I did with Zetro, if that makes any sense. I also know that if we hadn’t done it, we’d probably still be recording vocals for Pleasures of the Flesh, because Paul was having a really hard time in the studio and with the songs. But I got to rectify that by playing with him again all those years later.
MER: Was it hard to come up with your next album? Pleasures of the Flesh was released in 1987.
Gary Holt: No, it wasn’t hard to come up with it at all. We had problems this time in the studio with our former manager and producer Mark Whitaker. He wanted everything done this certain way and none of us liked it. He was basically experimenting with some technology he hadn’t mastered, and it really almost butchered the album drum-wise. Tom had to redo the drums digitally, one drum at a time, because he depended on drum samples that didn’t trigger right. We had to fix them one by one, and it took forever. It was a nightmare, it wasn’t a fun album to make.
MER: Was it hard to come up with your next album? Pleasures of the Flesh was released in 1987.
Gary Holt: No, it wasn’t hard to come up with it at all. We had problems this time in the studio with our former manager and producer Mark Whitaker. He wanted everything done this certain way and none of us liked it. He was basically experimenting with some technology he hadn’t mastered, and it really almost butchered the album drum-wise. Tom had to redo the drums digitally, one drum at a time, because he depended on drum samples that didn’t trigger right. We had to fix them one by one, and it took forever. It was a nightmare, it wasn’t a fun album to make.
MER: If you compare it to Bonded By Blood, what is it like?
Gary Holt: I think there’s more going on musically. I think if the album had a better production, it would have been fantastic. The songs are great, the playing is great, it’s just that we were basically trying to rescue the album rather than make the best album we could. We were trying to fix it. It’s never good to go in and spend all your time repairing it. Get it right the first time.
MER: The album was released on a small label. Did that mean you had less support to go touring?
Gary Holt: No, no. We did quite a few tours, really successful ones, so everything was really going well. The album did really well.
MER: Your next album, Fabulous Disaster, is two years after in ’89. Another great album. What’s your review upon that?
Gary Holt: That one we managed to get everything right. Went in and the production was exactly what we wanted and the songs are killer and it’s furious. It’s super heavy. There’s that one song on it everybody wants to hear, I needed a few year break from that song, but I came to the realization you can’t hide from songs just because maybe you’re a little tired of them, the fans like it.
MER: I mean, MTV must have been quite important for you at that time.
Gary Holt: Oh yeah, they played the hell out of that song. Then we did the big Headbangers Ball Tour in the States with Anthrax and Halloween and that was huge. That was the closest we ever came to feeling like we were in Motley Crue or something. The debauchery was pretty insane on that tour because it all of a sudden did go mainstream on this big MTV tour.
MER: Tom Hunting left after this album for the first time. What happened?
Gary Holt: Well, he was suffering from a series of anxiety attacks and panic attacks. Anybody who knows anything about it knows it can be crippling, they just take you out of everything that you’re doing. He just got to the point where he just couldn’t do it at that time.
MER: And then you moved on to a big label, Capitol Records, for Impact Is Imminent. What was that like?
Gary Holt: It was great leading up to it. They wine and dine you and throw a lot of money at you. They courted us since they tried buying the rights to Pleasures of the Flesh. By the time we had signed and recorded, everybody was gone, they had a huge upheaval in the record label. No one involved with signing us was there anymore, so no one gave a damn.
MER: And the album was kind of a step down, it’s not that strong.
Gary Holt: At the time I didn’t think that, but now I think if that album never existed and I could put that same album out with some improvements on the vocals, I think people would think it’s the best thing ever. The album’s crushing, the riffs. I think it was too brutal for the time. People wanted more “Toxic Waltz” and shit like that. And the album was just so in your face and just so heavy. Until they just re-released it, it’s the album out of all our catalog that sells for like 60-75 dollars on eBay. People are paying money to get it. All of a sudden people like that album.
MER: And then your next album Force of Habit from ’92 was kind of a different album.
Gary Holt: Yeah, and here once again it’s the funny thing is Force of Habit got way better reviews than Impact did but now people don’t look back as favorably on it. I mean, I think it’s an album that has its moments. As a guitar player, the guitar playing is great on it, there’s some shredding shit and the guitar sound is huge. But yeah, it’s definitely a departure. There’s some stuff on it I like, there’s some stuff I don’t. I don’t play any of it live. Not everybody in the band knows all of it, I’m the only guy who knows any of it now.
MER: What made you move in that direction?
Gary Holt: Well, it wasn’t even intentional. We were just… I don’t know, we would tune the guitars down a little bit and just started going for that deeper and more groovy sound. There’s a lot of fast stuff on it, but I think the big mistake was trying to make Zetro sing a little too much, a little too melodic vocally. There’s some good stuff on it, people either love it or hate it. At the time people loved it and now people don’t like it very much, and at the time people didn’t like Impact is Imminent but people seem to like it a lot more now.
MER: What’s the story behind the album sleeve?
Gary Holt: The cover was done by Ralph Stedman, the artist known for Hunter S. Thompson’s book illustrations. When he sent back the artwork, it wasn’t quite what was expected, but getting him to do it was such a rare opportunity that there was no way to ask for changes.
MER: Even your logo is different on that album.
Gary Holt: He painted the logo directly on there, so it couldn’t be removed. It was a situation where you don’t want to risk offending a legendary artist by asking for corrections.
MER: What happened after that album? Did you break up?
Gary Holt: The situation had become frustrating. With his first daughter being born and the band no longer being fun, especially due to difficulties with Zetro, Gary decided to take a break. He had always said he wouldn’t continue if it wasn’t enjoyable anymore.
MER: So what did you do all those years?
Gary Holt: I became a stay-at-home dad, taking my daughter to Girl Scouts, being a kindergarten dad, and doing activities like bowling. Though I briefly worked, I mainly focused on being a house dad while my ex-wife worked.
MER: You weren’t actually playing at all?
Gary Holt: I continued playing and working on material, but nothing serious during that period.
MER: So when did you find out the time was right to start the band again and who did you call first?
Gary Holt: Well, I went and visited Rick and he was shocked. When I told him I wanted to restart the band, he said “let’s go get some coffee somewhere and talk about this because I don’t even know if you’re serious.” The hard part was getting a hold of Paul who was living somewhere else and nobody had a phone number for him. Then he called me out of the blue. I thought he was calling about hearing these plans, but it was just coincidence. When I told him, he said “okay, yeah, sure” and hung up. He called me back five minutes later asking “you’re not kidding, right?” It all started with just a bunch of friends saying we should get Paul and the band back together.
MER: So he was actually in the band when he died?
Gary Holt: Yeah, yeah. I mean, we were all addicted to methamphetamine. We weren’t really doing anything, but he was still in the band.
MER: Then you had to go hunting for another vocalist. Did you call Zetro right away?
Gary Holt: What happened was we had two shows booked in Anaheim before Paul died. As it turns out, Zetro had a family vacation planned for Disneyland that same weekend. He called me up and said, “dude, I’m going to be in Anaheim. Why don’t we do the show?” I said sure. It was really fun because we were able to play a lot of the other material. With Paul, we pretty much only played the Bonded stuff. Even that gets boring when you can’t play any of the other songs. We did the shows and it was cool. I thought it was gonna be fun, and it was for a little while, but Zetro really didn’t want to be there and made life difficult again.
MER: Tempo of the Damned was released in 2004. What was it like writing another Exodus album after all those years?
Gary Holt: It was easy because I quit doing dope. All of a sudden the creativity came back, and it just kind of flowed, and it always has ever since then. I don’t have a problem writing albums. It’s become really easy, easier than it’s ever been. We were real happy and real excited. The album came out killer. It was more of a comeback record than most people ever expected. It came back with a swift kick in the balls, and those kicks have only gotten harder with each album. Next album’s going to be a nuclear kick.
MER: That must have been rather important for you. I mean, a lot of your fans regard that album as a masterpiece.
Gary Holt: Yeah, it’s a killer record, yeah.
MER: If your fans didn’t like it, do you think you’ll still be around now?
Gary Holt: You know, it’s hard to say because without making it sound harsh and mean, I don’t ever care what the fans think. I care about my fans, but I write for myself. And what happens is in the end, we usually want the same thing. What happened with Force of Habit was I was doing what other people thought I should do, listening to those voices chirping away in my ears. But now I just try to please myself and hope that people like it. It seems to work out well.
MER: What about a track like “Scar Sprangled Banner”? Are you still pissed at the government like you were then?
Gary Holt: Yeah, but see, I’m a complex person, you know. I’m pissed at the government, but I’m pissed at everybody. I’m pissed at the government, I’m pissed at anti-war protesters because I hate hippies.
MER: Then you have something to write about.
Gary Holt: Yeah, for sure.
MER: And then there were some more lineup changes. Steve Souza left the band again, Tom left the band again.
Gary Holt: Tom was starting to suffer his anxiety issues again and needed some time away. We went into this knowing all along that he should just take a break and see how it feels. In my opinion, he’d never fully recovered from the first time. He hadn’t really gotten to the bottom of the issue so he could actually get better, and now he has. He actually understands that you take a deep breath, you’re not having a heart attack, you’re just having a panic attack. And Rick, he’s got his two kids and they needed him at home. He couldn’t give a hundred percent and he knew it. He rarely ever showed up for rehearsals for Shovel Headed Kill Machine.
MER: How much effect did that have on the album? Did it take a completely different direction than you had in mind?
Gary Holt: No, not at all. I was working on these songs before anything happened and these are the songs that I got. It’s a killer record. If there’s one difference, it’d be more in style points because Paul’s a different drummer than Tom. Tom’s drumming is so much the heart and soul of Exodus, of our sound. So it sounded different. Paul just kills it on the record, but Tom’s drumming just sounds like Exodus drumming. So stylistically, there might be some differences. But other than that, it’s the album we set out to make. I didn’t let anything stress me out. I called Lee up immediately and said, “You waited 20 years. Here’s a chance. Why don’t you join the band?” And that lug that just walked upstairs, he came in, was the vocalist I’d been looking for all these years since Paul.
MER: And this was your second album on Nuclear Blast. Did that work well for you?
Gary Holt: Yeah, yeah, we re-signed, we’re there for the duration now. I don’t know how many more albums I got in me, but I’ll keep going as long as I can do it well.
MER: Now your songs are getting longer and longer. I mean “Deathamphetamine” is well eight and a half minutes long. Is that intentional or does it just happen?
Gary Holt: It’s just kind of a natural progression of the song. I’m not gonna tell a song it’s finished when it hasn’t told me it’s finished. All these parts kept coming together and just boom, this big epic. At the same time, we’re not really writing songs for radio anymore, hell, or MTV. MTV doesn’t show music videos, at least not in America. It’s all shows, stupid reality shows and crap like that. So you don’t have to take that into consideration.
MER: Your last album was released last year, Atrocity Exhibition, Exhibit A. You’ve written all the music and most of the lyrics as well.
Gary Holt: Well, Lee wrote most of “Children of a Worthless God”, and he’s written some stuff that’s already finished and recorded for the next album. But Lee always, because the Heathen record, I call it the thrash metal Chinese Democracy, it’ll be done in like 10 years, but he’s actually in the studio. They’ve finished drums, so there is a new Heathen album on the horizon. But he says his riffs are like fine wine. They take time to nurture. Mine are like moonshine, they’re done overnight. They would show up for rehearsal and I’d finish like “Iconoclasm”, which is seven and a half minutes long, from the time they left practice the day before to the next day, and it didn’t exist before that. It just comes to me. I write lyrics, riffs without a guitar around. I can visualize the fretboard and I’m playing guitar without a guitar. I know the fretboard well enough to create without the instrument around. I write some of my best stuff that way.
MER: That’s the way it has to be done?
Gary Holt: No, I hope there’s more contribution on the next. His fine wine takes time. I know Lee has some other stuff too.
MER: So compared to Exhibit A, what will Exhibit B be like?
Gary Holt: The stuff I’m writing right now is really, really fast. Some of it’s long, some of it’s epic, some of it’s bizarre. It’s all really dark. But I’ve got one right now I’m working on. It’s easily the fastest Exodus song of all times. It’s ridiculously fast. It’s pretty silly fast really. And long? No, probably hit about six minute mark.
MER: Have you got any idea when the album will be released?
Gary Holt: It all depends on when we can get in the studio. I’m hoping to maybe be in the studio by next spring, so see what happens.
MER: You write while you’re on the road like now?
Gary Holt: In the head. Yeah, too crowded to leave guitars around on the bus. And when I get to sound check, I’ll start playing what I’m working on. But mostly I just hum stuff out and lay in my bunk and I hope I remember it later.
MER: Okay, let’s close the show with an Exodus track of your choice. What would that be?
Gary Holt: That’s always so hard. Throw a real loop out there and pick something really bizarre. Let me see. “Funeral Hymn”, I like that one. That’s a good one.
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